Fredy kosman
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Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/08 21:16
I want to buy a really decent pair of binoculars.
I'll go upto about GBP 500-700 if I have to.
I'm going to be doing hillwalking/birdwatching.
And I want something that (in order of priority):
a) is light in weight!
b) I can look through for several minutes at at time without eyestrain
c) Is atleast x10 magnification. (Yes I'll take my chances and go above x8, thank you!)
d) Good quality sharp image (I have good eyes)
without too much internal reflections too.
d) Has a reasonably wide field of view.
(Say 300ft at 1000yds)
- I am not planning to use them at night.
- I dont need them to be waterproof (as this seems to sacrifice weight).
- I dont wear glasses
- Yes x10! - I shall normally support the glasses on a solid object whilst using.
- Must be atleast *fairly* easy to use. (i.e. exit diameter shouldnt be *too* minute!!)
Can anyone make any recommendations?
Are there any idependent reviews available online?
I have tried the bid camera names like
Olympus and even Nikon, but (sorry!) their optics frankly aren't up to it.
I currently have a surprisingly good pair of old
Zeiss Jena 10x50s but they weigh a tonne, plus the image could be better...
I think the only real answer is to try out a number of them myself. Anyone know a big retailer that has a decent *range* of top names for us to try anywhere in Central London?
(I dunno... Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, Bausch and Lomb, and maybe Nikon?)
With thanks
Shiperton Henethe
P.S. Bit lost between the differenc
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/09 23:30
Your point is well taken.
I certainly have NOT rejected the advice I've been given.
I do now have a good feel for roughtly what the issues are, roughly what's available and who will be on my shortlist.
And tomorrow (Sat) I'll be heading for Rutland Water for a
MEGA TESTING session. And hopefully that is where the decisions will be made. Unless the place is so mobbed that I cant get my hands on anything...! [Any views on thie??]
If any of you lot are there you can recognise me by my old heavy battered Zeiss Jena Jenoptem 10x50W binocs [still sporting their unfeasibly wide field of view  ]
...And I'm extremely grateful to you all!
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/11 22:11
I definitely want the extra power 10x not 8x.
But I didnt really get on with the High Grade 10x32.
The image couldnt handle light off shiney leaves very well. Swarovski and Leica were much better behaved.
Plus it was a bit heavy.
Are the Nikon Venturers 10x32 better than the
HighGrade (or maybe they are the same thing
- slightly confused)...
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/13 11:55
Well that is interesting.
The man in the shop was totally confident on this matter.
However the eyecup thingies *looked* identical so much so that I did have a breif attempt but
I didnt seem to be able to unscrew them on the
EL 10x32s. Just possible that they were jammed on.
Lets hope so. Because if so that's pretty much all my problems solved! (Apart from finances...)
Incidentally what happens if you put two of these binocular boosters on - how well does that work in practice?
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/14 11:48
Have you guys ever tried a Nikon 8x32SE CF (porro)?
I was non-plussed by the Venturers but these totally blew me away! (Yeah I know not waterproof...)
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/16 03:48
Several folks have mentioned the 10x30 IS Canons.
And its does indeed sound intriguing.
But I am suspicous...
-How long do the batteries last in practice?
-What happens when they fail??
(I understand that the optics dont "centre" themselves when you power-off, hence it wont be using the best part of the lenses.)
-I'll be interested to see how noisy they are...
-Question: Does it center on the image or on inertia?
-If on the image does it get confused by looking at a bird with vegetation being blown around beside it?
-If on inertia then what happens at sea/in a car?
Does it still work?
-Are they *really* that light - I read 22 oz somewhere!
(Canon's website says "600g" which must be about the same thing, no?)
-At that weight, esp being porro prisms, surely the whole the will be incredibly fragile. I knock against a rock and you can kiss them good-bye, (no...?)
-What do they weigh *with* batteries?! [2x AA]
-It's a PORRO prism, right, which means that they cant be water proofed, right?
So just how water resistant is "water resistant"?
e.g. What are they going to be like in the drizzle in the Scottish Highlands?!
- Mimimum focus seems to be 4.2 meters
I am also told that the on-button is "quite stiff" and has to be held down. So, again rather less good for prolonged usage...
Anyhow I shall definitely be trying them out if I get a chance.
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/16 07:19
1. What about Nikons?
I'm not overly worried about poor lighting conditions but I am *extremely* fussy about basic quality of the optics (resolution, lens flare, chromatic abberation etc.)
Interestingly this guy seems to rate Nikon's top lenses above anything else (!):
http://www.betterviewdesired.com/NkSup.html
And he's certainly tried out several binocs!
2. What type of prism?
He also says that porro prisms out perform roofs - though I presume they weigh more and this could be a problem for me.
- any views?
3. My *main* interest is either viewing birds of prey or scanning the magnificant view whilst doing extreme hill-walking. IMHO, there is little point in having a top quality lens unless you can support/steady them and I usually find a way to do so.
With that in mind, has anyone ever tried a decent pair of x12s with a wide field of view?!
(Controversial or what!!)
4. What about wide field x12s?!
e.g.
(I am trying to avoid having to carry a scope as well so the extra magn would be most welcome!)
Please dont shout at me... has anyone actually
*tried* such high power *and* wide field of view binocs for birding...
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bertkenward
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/16 10:28
Duobling the magnification reduces the exit pupil by a factor of 2 that means the brightness is reduced by a factor of 4.
Still 20x with a 42mm is a 2+ exit pupil..
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/16 20:46
Do I take it that's Nikon Superior E 8x32 are the same thing as the totally remarkable
Nikon 8x32 SE CT (porro prisms)?!
You know what, I went to the Bird Fair (UK) last weekend.
I tried *all* the top binos. The Swarovskis 10x32, New Leica
Ultra-thingies 10x43 (sadly no x32 versions built yet...)...
and then right at the end of the day I found the Nikon 8x32 SE CT.
I'm gonna have to re-test this, you understand, but let me tell you
I was go-smacked. *So* easy to use (The Swarovski 10x32 keep giving me blackout when I look at the edge of the field of view. - No I don't wear glasses, yes I had the eyecups up, Yes I tried all sorts of angles of my head forehead forward, back etc... And yes I carefully adjusted the dioptre settings)
But the Swarovskis and the Leica also both had significant colour fringing. "Unavoidable" I was told.
Now I know I *was* slightly comparing apples with pears going from 10x to 8x... but I just couldn't **believe** just how good the Nikon image was.
Well, in fairness it was at the end of the day and well, one's eyes do get tired etc but when I put the Nikons up to my eyes I put them down again and thought
"Crikey I literally can't fault these".
It was like looking without any binos, except everything was 8 times nearer! Eyes but totally at rest. I couldn't see *any* colour fringing (surely some mistake!) anywhere even though looking at dark objects against bright background (i.e. Rutland Water) and was using the edge of the image too...
Planned Use:
But I want do climb to mountain tops and spend "hours" looking out through my binocs with them nicely propped-up (on some rock etc), and if well-supported one definitely can see more with a 10x than an 8x.
So I eagerly tried the 10x42 SE CF... but... no good!
Sorry my eyes I just didn't like 'em. They are also too heavy of course for me at 710g instead of 630g.
Cannon IS 10x30
Oh yes I did try these image stabilised.
Very, *very* impressive image stabilisation.
I dont care what anyone says, *if unsupported* you can definitely see more through these guys than through anything else. Incredible.
And they only weigh 600g too, the 2 AA batts last "2 hours on continual use", and field of view not too bad at 105m/1000?
Image stabilisation works just incredibly well and Swaro, Nikon and Leitz need to buck their ideas up.
The only problem was the optics were in a very different league, with quite bad colour fringing. So in my case propped up on a rock they wouldnt really compete with top notch competitors. (Also they arent waterproof...)
Conclusion:
If the 8x32 SE CF are the derivatives of the
Superior E then that man at www.betterdesiredview.com talks sense afterall! For me these could be the best optics in the world (subject to re-testing shortly)
Question:
- Anyone know *exactly* how showerproof [I know they aren't waterproof] these porro prisms are? (i.e. the 8x32 SE CF)
- If I *don't* go for the Swaroviskis then I'll need to try and find some other 2x or 2.5x boosters, for those times when I'm going up the hill without a scope.
Any recommendations:
- Anyone tried the EagleOptics "universal" one?
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=&type=&pid=3406
- Or the Opticron one (if it fits!)
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/16 22:41
I concede that I may well be holding them sub-optimally - though I have experimented quite a lot, believe me!
But I would say with absolutely rock-steady support and with a good pair of binocs, you can see about five to ten times as much detail as with even small amounts of wobble.
So I'm not that impressed with this line of thinking.
My stone-filled sock did work quite will with supporting the scope at different angles... particularly if used longwise... The trouble was that I was then tempted to carry the damned thing up the hill - and would no doubt have been much better off with a small tripod!!
Anyone got any strong recommendations for an ultra-light mini-tripod for this propose?
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/20 06:39
...because they are lighter, presumably!(?)
Any idea how much lighter they were?
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Renfield
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/22 01:00
Binoculars are a very personnel chioce. While 1 person might find the
Leica Trinovid to be the perfect binocular for them, that does not mean eveyrone shall. Always try before you buy.
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/25 19:13
BTW, did Optolyth ever (/do they still) make alternative eyepieces for the 30x75 - any idea?
I was considering either a zoom or simply a higher magnification eyepiece - I dunno maybe x60?
It looks like they now make only a 25x70BGA (950g)
or else the much heavier x80BGA range (1390g).
I imagine there must be covers that you can keep them in to keep the worst of the rain off, whilst you use them, no?
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/26 01:08
Nice idea but several mixed/bad reviews on epinions re their optics:
http://www.epinions.com/content_30914743940
To be fair they re probably just too cheap for the quality
I am looking for - particularly when you throw in image stabilisation...
Also the weight 630g/22 oz. (excluding batteries) is not ideal.
Sure I'll take a look at them though, if only
I can find a stockist in Central London..
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bertkenward
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/28 12:54
I believe Eagle Optics sells a 2.5X etxender, eg. However increases the magnificatoin by
2.5X. It costs $119 & fits a great variety of binoculars.
http://www.eaglewoptics.com/index.asp?type=19andpid=3406
One well thing wich is clear with this search for the optimal binocular is which one casnnot have everything, there are compromises and trade offs required.
For example, ff you want wide fovs and high magnifications, an optical designer will have to make a compromise between the weight of the optics and the shaprness of optics at the edge.
A 10x binocular with a 360 degree FOV at 1000yards requires eyepieces that have naerly a 70 dewgree aparent field of view. Looking at it so in the design, ietyher more glass is consciously requyired to correct the edges or a cetrain lack of sharpness at the edge will be present.
Design is compromise and optimization, can't have everything.
jon
So, ea
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/30 11:28
As posted elsewhere in this now rather long thread, I was deeply impressed by the image quality on a pair of Nikon 8x32 SE CF porros.
I must have had a brain seizure or something but the image was so good that I couldnt fault it.
I couldnt even see any colour of the 'inevitable' abberations at the side of the FOV with both
Leica and Swarovskis.
The only significant downer is that they arent waterproof of course - but I can probably live with that...
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/01/30 21:05
I just tried the Swarovskis 10x42 with a x2 adaptor in one of the shops recommended here.
Narrow field of view and not bright but perfectly adequate in bright conditions!
Incidentally, I also tried top High Grade Nikons 10x32 but didnt like the way they handled bright light off leaves. Sorry, not good enough.
Tried the Leitz. Yes Nice image but slightly heavy vs the
Swaro 10x32. My only real complaint was the focus mechanism was rather stiff (even in hot conditions)
and sort of clunky. Maybe this will wear in but I was not impressed.
The Swarovski 10x32 were superb! But not perfect...
10x32 WONT TAKE THE ADAPTOR!
My main complaint here is that only the 10x42 accept a bloomin x2 adabptor. Can you *believe* it! I find this so irritating it's not true.
Guys! I am trying to save *weight* here. That's why I'm not carrying a scope you dummies. And that's why I'm planning on buying a 10x32 and not a 10x42. Weight!
It is pure snotty optical snobbish that is stopping
Swarovski from letting us fit the 10x32 with the x2 adaptor.
No I dont care *how* dim the image is, it is entirely clear the I would be able to see greater detail with a x2 adaptor for small very distant objects than without it.
Damn damn damn!
EYEPIECE DISTANCE
An other complaint is that it didnt seem very good at close focus. I couldnt get the eyepieces close enough together, and the overlap between circules ended up poor - so much so that my eyes kept failing to focus.
I find it *gob-smacking* that Swarovski dont let you get the two barrels closer than that. Why not build them so close that literally anyone can use them?
Looking at infinity I was fine with them - but only with them sqeezed together maximally!
I was also shown a 4 month old pair who's focus mechanism wasnt working correctly despite having been sent back to Swarovski. Maybe they are using the wrong grease or something.
That said the focus action was extremely good (when new!).
Very low resistance and very few turns - perhaps a shade *too* fast if anything.
Finally I must say that they arent all that easy to use.
I personally found that they do tend to black out very easy when the eye looks at something at the edge of the FOV. I dont wear glasses.
I tried everything. Angling the my head forward, pulling out the eye piece things... Livable with but not great.
I'll have to have another go.
BUY A LIGHT WEIGHT SCOPE TOO?
I am now seriously considering buying a second hand
Optolyth (30x75 I think) for hill walking where I'm not planning anything too arduous. (e.g. If I have any fillies coming with me... )
I am certainly not hauling any fat tripods up the hill but I guess a quality light weight scope might be a real bonus for certain things...
There could be some merit in a collapsible one (lighter and longer - which give you more chance to find a rock to prop it up on!)
The man in the shop told me that pre the Swaros, (and possibly pre the Nikons)
the Optolyth 10x75 BGAs were the scope of choice for birders at one point a few years back.
They were certainly pretty good. Nice camouflague green colour and rubber armour too. Though I would still prefer light-weight carbon-fibre/plastic to aluminium just to save that precious weight.
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Fredy kosman
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/02/02 13:25
Yes... Sling method sounds interesting though not sure I completely understood it.
- Know of any online photos of it in action?!
So far all I can say is that the 'fence post' technique(!)
in the absence of any tripid has certain merit.
There is nothing to beat an absolutely rock-steady image.
However one problem is that the rubberised coating can wobble if on too narrow a lip!!
I also tried using a sock stuffed full of pebbles that worked fairly well. Though obviously better if you dont have to carry the pebbles around too far...!
I think I may crack and buy a small, ultra-light tripod of some sort, that I can stip on to a post or rock.
But it all adds up to extra weight which is what I'm trying hard to avoid.
Have you ever tried a polystyrene bean-bag?
Do you where I might by some small ones made for the purpose...? (UK)
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/02/03 07:26
Thanks. I'll certainly have another look at them.
I wasnt massively impressed with the Leica 10x32.#
For one thing the focus is stiff (even in very warm weather)
and somehow imprecise.
Have any of you guys actually tried the Nikon 8x32 SE CF (porros)?
I think they used to be called "Superior E" (which certainly got rave reviews on
www.betterviewdesired.com, not that that proves anything as such.)
I tried them at the Bird Fair last weekend.
I was blown away by them.
I must have had a brain ceisure or something but I at the time couldnt fault them!
*Incredibly* restful on the eye like nothing else
I looked through all day. It was like *nothing* was between you and the view, but the view was
8x closer...
7.5deg FOV, 23.3oz.
(Your Leica 8x32 is better but not by much: 7.7deg, 22oz)
Downsides: Not waterproof and min focus of 3 Meters.
Time is running out I need to decide in the next 2 days!
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re:Need a pair of top quality binoculars... Any suggestions? e. - 2005/02/07 00:38
My progress so far:
It doesnt look like I can get enough width (300+ ft/1000yds)
at a weight below 22 oz in quality x10 binocs, no matter how much I spend!!
This is most dissappointing.
Currently considering:
Nikon Venturer LX 7438 (10x32) Binocular
25.2 oz
Leica Trinovid BN/Ultra (10x32) Binocular
23.3 oz
Canon (10x30) IS Binocular
22 oz (+Batts!
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